DINOSAURS LIVED WITH MAN

'THE HOBBIT'

updated 10-28-04

THE DREAM AND THE REALITY

compiled by Dee Finney

Sumerian tablet depicting winged Reptilian God

FROM THE BIBLE:   JOB 40:15-18 15. Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox. 16. Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly. 17. He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together. 18. His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron. 19: He is the chief of the ways of God: he that made him can make his sword to approach unto him. 20: Surely the mountains bring him forth food, where all the beasts of the field play. 21. He lieth under the shady trees, in the covert of the reed, and fens. 22. The shady trees cover him with their shadow; the willows of the brook compass him about. 23. Behold, he drinketh up a river, and hasteth not; he trusteth that he can draw up Jordan into his mouth. 24. He taketh it with his eyes - his nose pierceth through snares. Chapter 41: 1. Canst thou draw out leviathan with an hook? or his tongue with a cord which thou lettest down? 2. Canst thou put a hook into his nose? or bore his jaw through with a thorn? 3. Will he make many supplications unto thee? will he speak soft words onto thee? 4. Will he make a covenant with thee? wilt thou take him for a servant forever? 5. Wilt thou play with him as with a bird? or wilt thou bind him for they maidens? 6. Shall the companions make a banquet of him? shall they part him among the merchants? 7. Canst thou fill his skin with barbed irons? or his head with fish spears? 8. Lay thine hand upon him, remember the battle, do no more. 9. Behold, the hope of him is in vain; shall not one be cast down even at the sight of him? 10: None is so fierce that dare stir him up: who then is able to stand before me?

DREAMS WITH REPTILIANS OR DINOSAUERS INTERRELATING WITH HUMANS 9-16-02 - DREAM -  I went home, which was out in the country where there were fields and small trees. This scene seemed foggy and objects were only in silhouette. I was standing outside with my husband. My husband said he was going to meet his friend and they were going to go for a walk together. I could only see silhouettes, but coming across the field, I saw men and dinosaurs. These were not the huge dinosaurs, but they did have large heads and bodies and walked on their hind feet with their smaller front feet in the air. I was informed that these men were Ergo Pythagus  (like Lucy I assume) NOTE:  The word 'ergo' means 'from the direction of". The word Pythagus doesn't exist on the web, but the name Pythagorus was suggested.  This is what he taught: Pythagoras' teachings were in areas of contemporary concern: community, spirituality, health, meditation and humanity’s relationship to nature . The Pythagoreans believed in the transmigration of souls. On the other hand, The Pythagoreans held to mystical beliefs similar to those of Orphism. The Orphic cult claimed as its inspiration, the mass of writings by the poet and musician, Orpheus, and upheld a number of the classical stories created by its namesake. One of these stories, which told of the creation of the human race by the deity, Zeus, implied that the human flesh was evil and the human spirit was good. Thus, it gave rise to beliefs of an ascetic nature. Adherents of Greek asceticism sought salvation in a life of self-denial, as the denial of carnal urges was believed to enable the liberation of the spirit. In such a belief system an impersonal divinity or mystical force, constituted by metaphysical laws, simply operates to move souls about from one life to the next, returning them as different animals, and plants, depending on the goodness practiced in their former life. 3-17-99 - DREAM - (I got this message by voice) "An uprising will be held by the 3rd Tribe Huron Nation of Canadian decent."  (I jumped out of a lucid dream to write that down, thinking I spoiled the dream) I went back to sleep and found myself in a huge office building after hours. Three of us came into the office with a letter of apology and to clean out the desk of the person who had done the uprising. My boss came in across the hall right after us and turned on his light. I let him know we were there and showed him the letter of apology. He was just looking at it when the bosses boss showed up. He had just heard about the uprising and he was really HOT angry.  In a loud voice he hollered at my boss, "I KNOW we didn't know about this in advance. I want to know WHY we didn't know about this." He then brought out three cards and on the cards, it said, "5th Tribe Mohawk, Ohio, 1999.  (There is a BIG uprising coming) NOTE: QUESTION: These bosses in my recent dreams are always the same two guys. I know them as previous bosses I worked for it seems but maybe they are only look alikes.   NOTE 2:  The bosses I've been dreaming about always look like the boss I had who wore a military uniform and when he turned around and walked away from me, he had a hunchback like a Reptilian alien. This is starting to bother me! SEE: DREAM OF THE DOGSTAR 3-18-03 - DREAM - I was looking at a series of picture frames, which were situated in narrow slots, that I could just barely reach my hand into the slot and clock on them to make them bigger to look at them in detail. Many of the pictures went by, then I saw one with a greenish upright Reptilian in it, which intrigued me, so I clocked on that one, and the next picture was a little bigger and showed a greenish Reptilian standing next to a beautiful woman in a long flowing gown. That scene intrigued me even more, so I looked closer at the pictures and saw that they were numbered starting from 1, continuing upward in numbers and the reptilian picture didn't appear until picture 20 or so, about 4 or 5 rows down. I clicked on the picture to show me the Reptilian with the woman and woke up. Here are some links about ancient archeology from About.com Exposing a Scientific Coverup Examines the work of Michael Cremo and Richard Thompson, authors of Forbidden Archeology, and their claims of a cover-up in the scientific community. Flights of Fantasy? Throughout the world there are legends of buildings and monuments - like Stonehenge, Nan Modal and the Great Pyramid - being constructed with "flying stones." Forbidden Archeology From the book of the same title, some of the evidence that modern man has been around a lot longer than the scientifically accepted 100,000 years. Inscribed Wall at Chatata, Tennessee Marked on the surface by projecting stones, a sandstone wall cemented by red mortar features enigmatic diagonal rows of markings. Are they natural or not? Ica Stones of Peru Approximately 15,000 stones are clearly carved with scenes of medical transplants, people riding dinosaurs and other enigmas. Are they a hoax? Hidden Bits of History: Australia Out-of-place artifacts dug up in Australia, including ancient Egyptian inscriptions, coins, pottery, carvings and other artifacts. Jurassic Art The Ica Stones and figurines depicting dinosaurs are estimated to be at least 1,500 years old. How did ancient man have knowledge of these creatures? Excellent. Levitation and Liquefaction of Rock How did the ancients create, move or place the huge blocks of stone that make up their temples and pyramids? Levitate them? Liquefy them? Jurassic Art: The Ica Stones This is a follow-up article about the enigmatic Ica Stones depicting people and dinosaurs together, an ancient man with a telescope, etc. Some good photos. Man as Old as Coal What appear to be petrified human bones are found in slate, and are therefore at least 280 million years old! But conventional science says man hasn't been around that long. Man Over Million Years Science says it's impossible, but these artifacts depict man with dinosaurs, 110 million-year-old fossilized handprints, and 2 billion-year-old manufactured spheres. Museum of Forbidden Archaeology The exhibits change, but exhibits have included anomalous artifacts and censored scientists. The Map of "The Creator" A find by Bashkir scientists contradicts traditional notions of human history: stone stabs which are 120 million years old covered with the relief map of Ural Region. The Nazca Spaceport and the Ica Stones The Ica stones - thought to be ancient carvings - depict medical transplants, transfusions and men slaying dinosaurs! The Newark Holy Stones In 1860, a stone was found near Newark, Ohio inscribed with a condensed version of the Ten Commandments in a peculiar form of post-exilic Hebrew letters. Odd Things in Wrong Places Curious findings of objects that are impossibly old: a doll-like figure, tools, an iron pot and more. Oops, Our Anomalies are Showing From Laura Lee's website, a collection of "ooparts" - including a metallic tube inexplicably found in a 65-million-year-old chalk bed. Paleocontact: Ancient Astronauts vs. Ancient Civilizations A thoughtful essay on ancient technology, including the possibility that the ancients were able to liquefy rock! The Mystery of the Stones at Ollantaytambo The small Peruvian town of Ollantaytambo, Peru is home to one of the world's most amazing megalithic structures. The ruins are littered with stone blocks that have been cut with precise angles and perfect inside edges. The Phaistos Disc All about an enigmatic disc dating to about 1700 BC found on the island of Crete on which is inscribed strange glyphs that no one has been able to decipher. Phoenician Fortress and Furnace in Oklahoma? It appears that another discovery has been made that will weigh in on the side of "diffusionists." ViewZone examines some curious ruins in the most unlikely place. Are they man made or natural? The Piri Re'is Map of 1513 A good article about this mysterious map, thought to be one of the earliest world maps to show the Americas and Antarctica. It has many unusual details ahead of its time.

WHO WAS LUCY? Australopithecus Written by Kaveh Nateghi fard@interlog.com The earliest modern human predecessors belong to a species of ape-like creatures of the genus Australopithecus, who inhabited southern and central Africa during the Pliocene era at the minimum of 5.5 million years ago. Australopithecus is one of several genus of extinct hominids considered being ancient evolutionary ancestors to modern man. The remains of this hominid were discovered in 1924 in Taung, Cape Province, South Africa. Dr. Raymond Dart an anatomy professor was given the fossil skull of a young girl. He observed that the teeth were unlike those of apes but rather resembled those of modern man. However the size of the cranial cavity was considerably smaller than that of modern humans to the extent that even if it had reached maturity the brain would not have been bigger than that of a gorilla. He believed he had found the remains of an ancient ancestor of modern man and named it Australopithecus africanus. Additional discoveries led to the firm belief of Australopithecus being a hominid who was indeed erect and bipedal. Along with A. africanus, another species of Australopithecus was discovered. This species was larger and heavier and was appropriately named A. robustus. Further evidence concluded that these two species of australopithecine’s lived 3.5 to 5.5 million years ago. Several decades later the remains of another skull was discovered by Mary Leaky in Tanzania. This creature was more massive than even the robustus australopithecine who were discovered in southern Africa. The specimen was originally called the Zinjanthropus boisei, but it is now referred to as A. boisei. The remains of Lucy, a more ancient australopithecine were discovered by Donald Johanson in 1974 at Hadar, Ethiopia. Along with Lucy the remains of others were found also in Ethiopia and in Tanzania and were named A. afarensis. Along with its bones the footprints of A. afarensis were also discovered. These clearly demonstrated that A. afarensis was bipedal and erect. A. boisei became extinct about 1 to 1.5 million years ago. There is some equivocation concerning A. africanus, it is not clear whether it became extinct like A. boisei or it was an ancestor from which the genus Homo developed. There is also some confusion about the placement of A. afarensis in the evolutionary chain. However Donald Johanson suggests that "Lucy" was a common ancestor to both the australopithecine and humans and is part of the missing link in human evolution. Some stone tools have been found at several sites, however it is not known whether all or only the more advanced species of Australopithecus used these tools. FROM: http://www.pro-am.com/origins/research/austgen1.htm

Artifacts of Live Dinosaurs, some interacting with Humans Peruvian Burial Stone FROM: http://www.creationists.org/livedinos01.html The Indian chronicler, Juan de Santa Cruz Pachachuti Llamgui wrote that at the time of the Inca Pachachuti many carved stones were found in the Kingdom of Chinca, in Chinchayunga, which were called "Manco." (Juan de Santa Cruz Pachachuti Llamqui: "Relacion de antique dades d'este reyno del Peru.") The reference to "Chinchayunga" was the low country of the central coast of Peru, where Ica is located today. "Manco" is believed to be a corruption of the Aymara word "malku" which means "Chieftain" or "lord of vassals." It is noted that some of these stones were taken back to Spain. The chronicler of the Incas wrote in about 1570. The OJO, Lima Domingo, a major newspaper in Lima, Peru on October 3, 1993 described a Spanish Priest traveling in the are of Ica in 1525 inquiring about the unusual engraved stones with strange animals on them. All of this is very interesting since "modern" man's conception of dinosaurs did not begin until the 1800's when the word dinosaur was coined (1841). These stones do not depict skeletons but live, active dinosaurs, most of whom are seen interacting with man. The obvious implication is that ancient Peruvians saw and lived with dinosaurs. The same modern ideas are reflected in clay figurines from the Pre-classical Chupicuaro Culture (800 B.C to 200 A.D.) found near Acambaro, Guanajuato, Mexico. Ankylosaurs exhibited a great deal of variety as do our modern dogs, however, the general type is readily recognizable in the Acambaro figurine. The most obvious explanation for hundreds of life-like depiction's of dinosaurs is that they have not been gone that long. These people saw them. In 1945 German archeologist, Waldemar Julsrud discovered clay figurines buried at the foot of El Toro Mountain on the outskirts of Acambaro, Guanajuato, Mexico. Eventually over 32,000 figurines and artifacts were found. They were similar to artifacts identified with the Pre-classical Chupicuaro Culture (800 BC to 200 AD) found throughout this area. The authenticity of the find was challenged because the collection included dinosaurs. Since many archeologists believe dinosaurs have been extinct for the past 65 million years and man's knowledge of them has been limited to the past 200 years. If this is true, man could not possibly have seen and modeled them 2500 years ago. In 1954 the Mexican government sent four well known archeologists to investigate. A different but nearby site was selected and meticulous excavation was begun. They found numerous examples of similar figurines and concluded that the find was authentic. However, three weeks later their report declared the collection to be a fraud because of the "fantastic representation of man and dinosaur together." Tombs in the deserts of Peru often preserve amazing artifacts which are very old, including the beautiful, intricate textiles of the Nasca culture (ca. 700 A.D.). These textiles depict living dinosaurs as do their ceremonial burial stones and pottery, indicating that these awesome creatures were still alive at the time and ancient Peruvians saw them. PERUVIAN BURIAL STONES

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Dinosaur Extinction: The Premise FROM: http://www.dinosaur-extinction.com/ Dinosaur extinction -- Most scientists believe that dinosaurs went extinct about 50 to 65 million years ago. Most scientists agree that man’s conception of dinosaurs has been limited to the past 180 years or so (the word itself wasn’t even coined until 1841). Therefore, if we discovered evidence of man’s knowledge of (or coexistence with) dinosaurs during the last couple of centuries, “science” (as we know it) would be turned upside down. Dinosaur Extinction: The Evidence Human & Dinosaur Fossils. Human bones and tools coexist in the same fossil layers as dinosaur bones in Texas and the Dakotas. Human & Dinosaur Footprints. Footprints of dinosaurs, humans and other mammals coexist in the same fossil layers in Texas and New Mexico. Native American Petroglyphs. Cave and cliff drawings in Utah and Colorado crudely depict certain dinosaur species (dated from 400 A.D. to 1300 A.D.). Ica Stones. Ceremonial burial stones discovered in Ica, Peru depict numerous species of dinosaurs, some in activities with man (dated from 500 A.D. to 1500 A.D.). Acambaro Figurines. Ceramic and stone figurines discovered in Acambaro, Mexico represent many species of dinosaurs (dated from 800 B.C. to 200 A.D.). Dragon Accounts. China, Europe and the Middle East share similar accounts of “dragons” and other beasts. Some cultures revered these creatures. For instance, records of Marco Polo in China show that the royal house kept dragons for ceremonies. In other cultures, it was a great honor to kill these beasts. There are numerous records of warriors killing great beasts in order to establish credibility in a village. Behemoth, Leviathan and the Dragons of the Bible. Job writes of great creatures, Behemoth and Leviathan, nearly 4000 years ago. Although more recent Bible translations use elephant, hippo or crocodile instead, the original Hebrew does not allow for these interpretations. The word “dragon” (Hebrew: tannin) is used numerous times in the Old Testament, and most directly translates as “sea or land monsters.” Gilgamesh, Fafnir, Beowulf and other Legends. Many famous legends, including the mythology of Egypt, Greece and Rome, include specific descriptions of dragons and other dinosaur-like creatures. Dragons in Ancient Art. Dinosaur-like creatures are featured on Babylonian landmarks, Roman mosaics, Egyptian burial shrouds, and many other pieces of art throughout the ancient world. Current Legends & Discoveries. There is a huge and credible legacy of sea, lake and swamp “monsters,” even to this day.

An e-mail received by a young woman from a man in Cuba: FROM:   http://www.angelfire.com/mi/dinosaurs/dinoscoexist.html "This year I bought a computer, got on the web and am enjoying the fruits of this "Information Age". Naturally, I've investigated sites which are of especial interest to myself...such as Pterosaurs. Why pterosaurs? Because in the summer of 1971 while stationed at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, I saw 2 of them flying leisurely overhead at no more than 200 ft distance. I haven't had much success telling people about it - they're all believers of the lies of evolution,etc. Now with the internet I've seen some corroboration. When I wrote to National Geo. years ago they informed me that Pterosaurs have been extinct for millions of years. Shows what they know. The arrogance of people amazes me. They're in New York, I was in Cuba; but they feel confident telling me what I saw. I wish someone would shoot one or capture it alive and cram it down NatGeo's throat. Thanks for the site, Eskin C NOTE: Didn't the Chupacabra also come from Cuba originally?

Received in an e-mail Atlantis Grid, DNA, Energy, Wormwood From The House of David Teaching Centre An article on the historical Atlantis Energy Grid and it's cosmic energy know as "Wormwood." This Christ Energy is now coming into it's own after being seeded 2000 years ago. There is also a discussion on the three great DNA past experiments and how they apply to Atlantis. Atlantis, The Atlantis Grid, DNA and the Redemption of the Universe. The question of DNA - and the inter-racial difficulties it caused - was important in Atlantis, and this article attempts to show why, what the historical background was, and the context it gives us for today. There was more than one type of humanoid present during Atlantis. To understand how this came about, we have to look back further in time, at even earlier civilizations on this planet. The humanoid form is a design that has existed for eons of time, and over that time has been expressed in may different ways. To explain what is meant by this, we might take a house design as a metaphor. Its plans, elevations, levels, general layout, rooms, the pitch of the roof, etc. - all taken together - are what constitute that design. The expression of that design may be to build it from timber, bricks, metal sheets, mud and wattle - the end effect will be very different depending on the materials chosen, but it's all the same fundamental design. So it is with the humanoid form. Over time, the same design has been expressed a number of different ways, using the best DNA that was then available, which in turn reflects different stages in the development of the physical planes of existence. Since Humanity has been in the phenomenon known as The Fall - from the time of Atlantis we have been moving steadily down through the frequencies - those who came before us now exist only at higher frequency levels, which, being largely out of sync with our own, are no longer a part of our general consciousness. What memories are left are now consigned to fairy stories and mythology. On planet Earth, there have been three great DNA experiments capable of expressing the humanoid design. The first was the reptilian, and we know that, prior to the domination by the planet of the Dinosaurs, the reptiles represented the major and most advanced DNA building block on the planet, and many different reptilian forms resulted. The highest expression of the reptilian DNA was a humanoid, reptile-man, or Reptoids. They formed the first great civilization here, now completely lost to any recorded history. They were cold blooded, and therefore very temperature sensitive, although in a highly energized planetary environment, this probably mattered little. Compared to today's human, they were almost devoid of emotion. The Dinosaurs, the second great experiment, were a much more sophisticated DNA form, and they were even more prolific, being the dominant DNA on Earth for 165 million years. Over time they developed to become warm blooded, allowing them to operate efficiently in a wide variety of ambient temperatures. A recent documentary on The Discovery Channel followed an interesting scientific detective story, as several Professors in this field explored sites where dinosaur footprints and tracks - sometimes by the thousand - are to be found. What became evident was that there were no tail prints, which turns out to be highly significant. All our pictures of Dinosaurs, developed against images first proposed over 100 years ago, show large tails being dragged, lizard-like, over the ground, and these were shown to be incorrect. The facts drawn from imprints left on the ground, and re-constructions of the implied mechanics of walking, now appear to indicate that these tails were balancing devices, and as such, were held horizontally, and clear of the ground, leaving no trail. The documentary illustrated that, over time, one particular group of dinosaurs had become increasingly upright. The terrifying Terrano-saurus Rex is a good example, as its massively muscular front legs were far too short to be useful as legs. They were arms - T-Rex moved on two legs, and stood upright, as did many of the later dinosaurs. The professor in the documentary showed his conclusion of the logical pinnacle of the development of dinosaurs, in the form of a full scale model. It was a giant humanoid! So, a humanoid based on Dinosaur DNA - or a Dinoid - is now tentatively supported by the latest archaeological findings. Indeed, science is thus just beginning to support what the kids comic strip writers, and of the great science-fiction series, appear to have known for decades. There are a variety of humanoids that have developed in the past, based on the same basic design as our own, and making the highest use of the best DNA that was available when and where this happened. Thus, for example, the Cardassians from Star Trek are a Reptoids race, humanoid beings based on the reptilian DNA. The Klingons are a Dinoid race, humanoids based on the dinosaur DNA. The Dinoids were the second humanoid civilisation, here on Earth, in pre-history. Like the Reptoids, they left and moved to colonize other places, long ago. How does this apply to Atlantis? Well, we are all, vaguely, aware that these complete civilizations have been here before our recorded - or even speculated - history. Indeed, they were! First the Reptoids, with their distinctly unfeeling, unemotional demeanor. Then the dinoids, who, being warm blooded, were far more like us. Both developed, ascended to higher frequencies, and left the planet. Both types, in their higher form, came back again, many, many times. There were many civilizations, spread around the cosmos, based on one or other of the two main DNA types, and there were almost certainly other DNA derivatives of the humanoid design, as well. Crustaceans, and Arachnid forms come to mind from the comic strips - perhaps these, too, represent some distant memory? The book "Two Thirds" records how the Alteans (who appear to have been a Dinoid race) traveled across two galaxies to settle on Mars, where they spent two hundred thousand years developing the new DNA from which the hu-man being - the third great DNA experiment on Earth - was to be created. Then, in just two generations they genetically engineered the native anthropoids to create the first true humans. They went on to observe, manage, and lead the new human race through hundreds of thousands of years as it started it's long developmental period. Notice the similarity between the names 'Altean' and 'Atlantean'. The Dinoids were a far more developed humanoid type than the humans, since they had existed immeasurably longer. However, their DNA was ultimately less capable than the human DNA, so that their ultimate development could not go nearly as far as the full potential of the human being. They looked for ways to get around this restriction, and in particular, they did this energetically, developing a two layer soul structure. The first layer was not unlike ours. The second, a sort of soul-mantle, held many extraordinary faculties which, today, we are only just becoming cognoscente of. Using the power of this mantle, they could manifest into the physical, travel across time and dimensions, communicate telepathically, teleport and bi-locate. Although Earth had long since ceased to be the home for their civilizations, later, a small number of Dinoids were here for a long time as powerful leaders of the newer human beings. They lead Atlantis, and later were the Pharaoh's of ancient Egypt. It is probable that there were Reptoids here, as well, at that time. Again, the book 'Two Thirds' is interesting, as it portrays the reptilian group, one of several civilizations from the Plaeides, and the Alteans (who were Dinoid) struggling for control of the galaxy. The role of the human, after a very tough time over many incarnations, is illustrated in the book as 'the redemption of the Universe', eventually being the mediators that bring all three humanoid types into harmony. Atlantis existed at a markedly higher frequency than our Earth civilizations of today. The frequency band in which they existed was around three times higher than ours, which means that, if an Atlantean at his correct frequency were to stand in front of us, today, we would be unable to see him. This has been caused by the continuing 'Fall' down the frequencies, over the intervening period. The whole Atlantean civilization was absolutely dependent for much of what it could do on the energy grid. Indeed, the grid itself might almost be called Atlantis, it was such an integral part of the whole Atlantean development and capability - both spiritual, and scientific. It would not be far fetched to say that Atlantis was BOTH the Atlantean civilization, and the great and vibrant energy grid on which it was based. Although Atlantis did, indeed, have a central city with large surrounding territories, parts of it's civilization, attached to and fully utilizing the grid energies, were to be found as colonies, tapped into the energy grid all over the planet, perhaps explaining why, to this day, we are arguing about where it really was. There were many Atlantean colonies around the planet, so that, to a considerable degree, ALL the locational claims of the modern world may well be true. The grid was a whole system of inter-locking energy structures, that between them brought the twelve great rays - the energy building blocks of the Universe - onto the physical planet. These rays provide all that is needed to sustain a most abundant, long life for all physical life forms. Thus, Dinoids, Reptoids, and native humans alike, all drew on the energy grid, which was highly energized, for both sustenance - food as we know it was for pleasure, not survival - and to maintain themselves at this high frequency. The energy grid also interacted with the soul/mantle of the ruling Dinoids, giving them the energy for their greatly enhanced powers. Throughout the Universe, there had been great disquiet about the human experiment. Never had so many potential powers been packaged into one DNA form - the remarkable powers that the Dinoids had by virtue of their over soul were all built into the Human DNA, which, eventually, would have no need of the 'over soul' of the Dinoids. It was an even greater threat to have added the concept of complete free will and self determination to these latent powers, and the plan seemed to many to be foolish in the extreme. Consequently, the plan cased a split at every level across our Universe - the Elohim, the Melchizedek order, the Essenes, the Angelic realms - all were split over this plan. Indeed, it was the fundamental source of separation. This argument showed up in Atlantis in several ways. First, there was much genetic engineering on the humans, designed to slow down our development. The other groups knew that humans were designed to overtake them, and a breakaway group of the Melchizedek order (all Dinoid priests), in particular, were instrumental in trying to slow the human form down by substantially disabling their DNA. The Dinoids and the Reptoids also tried hard to graft the human DNA into themselves, to gain the benefits of the greatly enhanced DNA. Thus, stories about genetic experiments, some of which became very bizarre, are founded in the reality of the time. Secondly, and directly connected, there was a great deal of racial pressure and dominance, a phenomenon that was, at that time, quite new. The ruling Dinoids were painfully aware that, at some future time, the humans would become more powerful than them. They became very insecure about this, and it was one of the undermining factors that undermined what had once been a model of community relations, and lead inexorably towards the downfall of Atlantis. Ultimately though, the downfall of Atlantis was, in large part, to do with misuse of the great energy grid which was its key support tool, and kept Atlantis at a constant, high vibratory level. The grid energy was diverted to form very powerful weapons of war, which could - through the use of massive crystals as accumulators - deliver a blast of energy with an effect not unlike a modern nuclear weapon. Most of our deserts today are the result of use of this weapon in action taken against various groups around the planet. The deployment of this weapon caused many of the Earth's tectonic plates to be damaged, and progressively ruptured, which was to give rise to huge volcanic activity around the planet, and eventually, with other factors, cause the main plate on which Atlantis stood, to sink. The main war, however, was with the Reptoids, who were very militarily aggressive, and who had taken over the planet Meldek, having earlier driven out the Melchizedek priesthood . (Chizu - or Jesu - meant priest, thus the Melchizedek are 'the priests of Meldek. It was, of course, a cosmic order, also) Meldek was soon to be destroyed. In the final, fatal exchange, the Atlanteans blew Meldek to pieces, but only after the Reptoids had launched their ultimate weapon : a resonance bomb of huge proportions that exploded in the atmosphere over the central city of Atlantis, causing the already damaged tectonic plates to buckle and collapse. In some way, this technology involved turning the energy of the Atlantean war-crystals back on itself, causing a 'feedback loop' which caused massive amounts of energy to run out of control, interacting with the Reptoids device in the atmosphere, and rapidly leading to a huge detonation. Planet Earth survived, but there was huge destruction and loss of life, and it's land masses were changed for ever. Prior to this final act of war, as the use of this devastating military weapon system had increased, the great energy beings of the Cosmos - whose gift the energy for the grid was - became more and more disapproving, at the same time as the Dinoid rulers were becoming more and more arrogant in their quest for ultimate power. The energy beings could see the great structural damage that was being done to the planet, but the Atlantean rulers would simply not listen. In their paranoia about the advance of their human charges, they had to have control - and the energy weapons were seen as vital to this. In the Cosmos, it was reluctantly decided that the supply of the twelve rays of cosmic energy to the Earth grid must be discontinued, and that planet Earth would consequently go into 'The Fall', as the Bible calls it - the lack of energy support meant that the planet, and all beings on her, would steadily fall through the energy frequencies. This was duly done, although it took time to implement, and required the assistance of those few human Atlanteans who had learned the truth about the nature of the cosmos, and had remained true to what they had learned. During the existence of Atlantis, while there was a fully energized grid, the cross over points of the major lines of the grid gave rise to huge energy vortices. The humans of Atlantis, in particular, were told never to spend time in or near these points, as they would quickly become energetically overcharged, which could, in extremes, be fatal. The vortices were so powerful that, at times, the energy could clearly be seen like a minor Aurora Borealis, with moving 'fingers' of energy, many tens of feet high, pointing upwards from the vortex. It was this that looked like the mouth of a dragon, and gave rise to the leylines being referred to as 'dragon lines' in many parts of the world, even today. Once the decision was made, in order that the grid could be de-commissioned, it was necessary for these vortices to be switched off. The small, highly spiritual group of loyal human Atlanteans - who has always opposed the science of the war machine that had lead to the diverting of the grid energy - were asked to assist with this by the great energy beings. Their task was to walk into the main vortex points, at great personal danger, and to use their spiritual skills to switch off the vortex. Small teams drawn from this group were sent all over the planet, so that all the vortices could be disabled in this way. It was this act that gave rise to mythological stories like Saint George and the Dragon - he was, in fact, one of these Atlanteans who remained true to their ideals and their great spirituality, and accepted this task. It is no coincidence that there are 'Dragon Slaying' stories in the mythologies of many cultures, all over the planet - they are a distant record, a folk memory, of what really happened. When all the energy points had been disabled, it was like withdrawing the fixing points that held the grid to the planet. What was left, in energy terms, were only seven of the great rays, and these were present only at low energy and in a modified and degraded form, which ever since have been reflected in the seven main chakras of the hu-man body. The energy grid then literally detached itself from the planet, and went off in it's own orbit, an 'almost planet' containing all the higher dimensions of Earth, but not the physical. This coincided with the final acts of war between the Dinoids and the Reptoids, which caused the physical destruction. The detached grid has come back into conjunction with the Earth every two thousand years, ever since, at which time, many apparently magical things have happened for a few years, as the higher powers were temporarily re-connected. The last time this happened was when Christ was on the Earth. The grid in it's full cosmic energy form was known as 'Herculobus', and it's energy as 'Wormwood', this latter being mentioned in the Bible. Only a faint magnetic shadow of the real grid, barely detectable, was left on the planet until recently. The removal of the grid had a dramatic effect on the surviving Dinoid rulers. Without the grid energy to sustain them, their 'over soul' - the part of them that contained all the magical and energetic powers that gave them the power to rule - was disabled. In fact, the over soul became a liability, threatening to drain them of their life-energy. Most of them fled the planet, to look for other energy environments that would continue to sustain them in full power. A few - mostly with a high degree of dedication to the human experiment - chose to remain, but did so with power that was both greatly decreased because of the removal of the grid, and, they knew, would steadily diminish further as the energies of the planet became ever lower. The Pharaoh's were one Dinoid group that did this, but with ever less power, as time passed and new generations were born. Their great structures, like the Egyptian Pyramids, were, in part, collectors of the cosmic energy that could refresh them, and maintain their powers, but ultimately this approach only delayed an inevitable end to their control. Let us now look to the present day. Over the twelve months of 1995 a phenomenon has been observed, as the energies of the leyline grid has increased 100-fold. This was caused by their resonating with the approaching 'Herculobus' - the real and original 'grid without a planet'. On approximately December 7th, 1995, the grid locked on to the planet, rather than pass right by, as it had done so many times before. At the end of that month, ceremonies around the world were performed to start the process of re-commissioning the grid into it's true form, which is highly energized, and multi-dimensional. All twelve cosmic energies are now present for the first time since Atlantis, and now there is a thirteenth energy, which is only just appearing around the whole planet for the first time. This energy holds the whole system together, and in a form that is highly resistant to abuse (unlike the system of seven it replaces, which is easily polarized). This energy, now coming into it's own for the first time, was seeded two thousand years ago, and is what we might now call the Christ Energy. The grid that gave rise to, and supported Atlantis is back. Soon, all the energetic structures it represents will be in place and operating, and in addition, the Christ energy will envelop the whole planet. The much discussed Ascension is the move back up the energies, driven by the re-commissioning of the Atlantis grid, to where we once were energetically, at the time when the Dinoids reigned, and abundance and magic were, for so long, the order of the day. The big difference is that now, humanity has evolved a great deal, having been tempered by long experience of the fall, separation, and all that has gone with it through many hundreds, if not thousands, of incarnations. We are ready to take, and use, the powers that we once available to Atlantis, for the highest good, and in an entirely new format. What is now happening will eventually benefit the whole cosmos, as it brings about the full and positive expression of the powers for so long latent in the Human design. What is on offer to humanity is it's destiny, is no less than the leadership position in the redemption of the Universe!

CREDO MUTWA THE REPTILIANS AND KING LEO

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ANTI-MAN/DINOSAUR TRACKS FROM:  http://members.aol.com/paluxy2/paluxy.htm For many years claims were made by strict creationists that human footprints or "giant man tracks" occur alongside dinosaur tracks in the limestone beds of the Paluxy River, near Glen Rose Texas. If true, such a finding would dramatically contradict the conventional geologic timetable, which holds that humans did not appear on earth until over 60 million years after the dinosaurs became extinct. However, the "man track" claims have not stood up to close scientific scrutiny, and have been abandoned even by most creationists. The supposed human tracks have involved a variety of phenomena, including forms of elongate (metatarsal) dinosaur tracks, erosional features, indistinct markings of uncertain origin, and some doctored and carved specimens (most of the latter on loose blocks of rock).

THE POSITIVE SIDE OF THE ARGUMENT The following text is from Dr. Carl Baugh's book entitled Dinosaur: Scientific Evidence that Men and Dinosaurs Lived Together. Chapter One Tracks Step on Evolution" So ran the headlines of the Fort Worth, Texas, Star-Telegram on Thursday evening, June 17th, 1982. The article highlighted a series of controversial points resulting from an excavation the author had directed. Did dinosaurs really die out over sixty million years ago? Were there giant humans wandering the earth at the same time as the dinosaurs? Were the tracks at the Paluxy River area of Texas genuine or had they been deliberately carved out of the rock for sale to gullible tourist? The headline appealed to me and so the theme for this book was born. Throughout its pages, questions are answered and compelling evidence is presented to show that dinosaur and human tracks at the Paluxy River in Texas DO step on evolution. At the same time, they show forth new facts concerning the Genesis Flood. The sedimentary rocks of Texas indeed tell a strange and intriguing story, supporting the biblical record of a worldwide flood in Noah's time (Gen. 6-9). An artifact was found in Ordovician strata near London, Texas. The stone, according to evolutionist, is over four hundred million years old yet the artifact is an iron hammer, clearly manmade. How could a manmade object have been made four hundred million years ago? What buried it in sedimentary strata deep in the heart of Texas? ( See photo page "Q" ) Or let us consider the ledges we excavated. It is Cretaceous limestone, dated by the University of Texas at one hundred eight million years. We excavated in during 1982 and, in addition to the human footprints, we found other evidences of recency. Here was carbonized material -burned plant residue of modern kind. The limestone is younger than that plant from long ago (probably only minutes younger) for that burned plant had to be burned in the middle of the limestone as it was being formed. Our major excavation was at the Paluxy River area, four miles out of the little town of Glen Rose, Texas. Thousands of tourists visit here every year to see the state park where evidence has been brought together to show that more than a dozen different types of dinosaurs roamed these Cretaceous beds at some time in the past. The intrigue and the mystery of this whole area has been enhanced by the many reports of human tracks, as well as dinosaur tracks, found in the strata on the area of this riverbed for more than fifty years. An eighty-nine-year-old local resident, Emmit McFall, was ever ready to show pictures and recount discoveries of both human-like tracks and dinosaur footprints. So it was on Mr. McFalls farm that our first preliminary excavation began on Monday, March 15, 1982 It should be stressed that there is considerable evidence to show that dinosaurs and human footprints have been found together by earlier excavators. One of them was Dr. Roland T. Bird from Harvard University and the American Museum of Natural History, at that time a leading geologist and paleontologist. He reported that a ledge of limestone had been ripped up in the Paluxy River area by a spring flashflood. In one of his sketches, he revealed that tracks were taken and put on display at the American Museum of Natural History, at Southern Methodist University, at the University of Texas, at Baylor University and at Brookland College. At the top of the sketch a series of human-like tracks can be seen, including a notation by Dr. Bird himself, "Single giant track to American Museum of Natural History". Thus, we find that his drawings indicate there had been earlier findings similar to those we have made in our present excavations. This has been confirmed by taped interviews with local Glen Rose residents. Charlie Moss found the first human tracks in the Paluxy riverbed in 1910. Ernest "Bull" Adams followed this trail of tracks and documented their existence. Jim Ryals and Emmit McFall found other footprints through the years. Geologist Clifford Burdick, Ph.D., verified human tracks in the 1940's. Dr. Cecil Daugherty led large groups to the prints for years. Stan Taylor, Mike Turnage, Fred Beirle, Wilbur Fields and John Morris, Ph.D., added their own documentation. Excerpts from Dinosaur: Scientific Evidence that Men and Dinosaurs Lived Together by Dr. Carl Baugh FROM: http://www.creationevidence.org/cemframes.html?http%3A//www.creationevidence.org/fa_questions/dinoman.html

Dinosaur Tracks and Ichnology

AFRICAN LUCY

1578. Prophecy given to Raymond Aguilera on 18 January 2001 at 7 PM. FROM:  http://prophecy.org/1578pro.htm During Eva's worship time, the Lord began to speak to me and give me visions and Words. Vision:  The Lord began by giving me a vision of a dinosaur walking away from me. Prophecy:  And He said, "Man is going to go like the dinosaur. This planet has outlived its usefulness." Vision:  Then the Lord showed Himself building this New World, which was about three to four times larger than the Planet Earth. Then the Planet Earth disappeared. This made me feel so helpless and sad, that I wanted to cry. It also made me understand the importance of my work with the Lord, and how I must move forward at all costs. (over)

:  Dinosaur death theory 'just a myth'  By Roger Highfield, Science Editor  (Filed: 02/03/2004)  The popular belief that a vast crater near Mexico is the scar left by an asteroid which wiped out dinosaurs 65 million years ago is questioned today.  The Chicxulub crater on the Yucatan Peninsula led many scientists to conclude that fast-moving debris from the asteroid's impact would have superheated the atmosphere so that vegetation burst into flames over much of the planet.  According to this theory, ground temperatures soared to about 1,000C, igniting forest fires across the world and boiling land organisms alive. The soot and smoke thrown into the atmosphere may have helped block sunlight, causing global cooling and plunging the planet into winter.  But a study published today in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, by Dr Gerta Keller of Princeton University, Dr Thierry Adatte from the University of Neuchatel and Dr Wolfgang Stinnesbeck from the University of Karlsruhe, suggests the crater predates the mass extinction by 300,000 years.  Their conclusion came after they studied strata in a core drilled from the crater.  The team suggests a more complex series of events such as an additional asteroid impact, perhaps in the Shiva Crater in India, volcanism, and climate change.  http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/03/02/wdino02.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/03/02/ixworld.html

THE HOBBITS The Truth About The 'Hobbits'  By Lloyd Pye  lloydpye@cox.net  10-28-04  Dear Jeff Rense:  -  I send this to you because I'm confident your audience would appreciate some help interpreting what has happened in the last couple of days in the world of mainstream anthropology, an event famed Darwinist Richard Dawkins calls the most important development in their field in decades--the discovery of tiny "human" fossils on an island in Indonesia. As with all such discoveries, this creature is trumpeted as "human"  for no other reasons than it walked upright, and it was found to be too recent (18,000 years ago) to qualify as a so-called "pre" human. Like all those other prehumans, it has not a bone in its body that looks human. The bones are all more robust, relatively speaking, than humans, the arms are longer, the fingers are longer, and the skull is about as far from human as can be imagined. Larger nasal opening, larger eye sockets, pronounced brow ridges, no forehead, tiny brain, but teeth clearly more human-like than chimp or gorilla-like. This, my friends, is "human" in name only. What it REALLY is, but what no mainstream anthropologist will dare consider, much less agree with, is an Agogwe, the smallest and most human-like of the four main types of Hominoids. I write about this extensively in Part III of my book, "Everything You Know Is Wrong," but the gist is this... Around the world, on every continent except Antarctica, exist living relics of the Miocene Era (25 million years ago), when about 50 species of tailless apes lived and far outnumbered monkeys in the fossil record. Of those apes, many had "short arms" unsuited for quadrupedal movement. (Quadrupeds need arms longer than their legs to move efficiently and comfortably.) Short armers had arms the same length as their legs. (Humans have arms shorter than their legs.) Thus, the "short armed" Miocene apes are left off the radar of modern anthropology because it is obvious they could only have moved comfortably in an upright posture. But since bepedality is considered a trait that our primate ancestors somehow "learned" as they emerged from trees to make their way on savannas (filled with feral cats they could not have hoped to compete with), anything that looks like it might have walked out of the Miocene has to be blotted from the record. Why? Because if there were upright walkers millions of years ago, then what are fobbed off as "prehumans" were not prehuman at all, but a continuation of Miocene apes that walked upright. This would leave humans off the archeological flowchart of life on Earth, which at present simply can't be considered because of the ugly can of worms it would open. If I'm right and mainstream anthropologists are wrong, then what are their precious, indispensible prehumans? Hominoids. Bigfoot, Sasquatch, Yeti, Abominable Snowman, Almas, and last but not least, the pygmy of the group, generically called the Agogwes. They are small, 3-4 feet tall, hair covered, and dominate folklore tales all over the jungles of Indonesia, Sumatra, Java, etc. (exactly where the new Hobbit bones were found). These creatures have been known and written about for 40 years. There is nothing new about them except to the mainstreamers who wouldn't be caught dead educating themselves to things they have been trained to believe are "impossible." It is ironic that, to defend their position, the mainstreamers who discovered the Hobbit bones are now saying, "We think they're humans because people on the island have folklore stories about them that go back hundreds of years." Now, what happens when WE Hominoid researchers say to THEM, "Folklore stories of Hominoids go back hundreds of years on every continent except Antarctica"? They virtually scream at us that we're being "unscientific" and should be dismissed as idiots or worse for even suggesting that the myths and legends of benighted savages should be taken at face value.  To cut to the chase and give you something you can take to the bank, the Hobbits are flatly and definitely not human. They are the bones of Agogwe type (pygmy) Hominoids. No tests will be performed that will show they are remotely related to humans. If mitochondrial DNA can be recovered (which should be possible because it's been recovered from 30,000 year old Neanderthals), it will be in the range of difference  from humans that Neanderthals have proved to be. (Neanderthals are representative of the Almas type of Hominoid and not human, either.) Time will show that what I'm saying is right and the mainstreamers are wrong. Book it. Lloyd Pye lloydpye@cox.net

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3948165.stm Wednesday, 27 October, 2004 'Hobbit' joins human family tree Chris Stringer holds a cast of the 18,000-year-old hominid LB1 Scientists have discovered a new and tiny species of human that lived in Indonesia at the same time our own ancestors were colonising the world.  The three-foot (one-metre) tall species - dubbed "the Hobbit" - lived on Flores island until at least 12,000 years ago. The fact that little people feature in the legends of modern Flores islanders suggests we might have to take tales of Leprechauns and Yeti more seriously. Details of the sensational find are described in the journal Nature. The whole idea that you need a particular brain size to do anything intelligent is completely blown away by this find Dr Henry Gee, Nature The discovery has been hailed as one of the most significant of its type in decades. Australian archaeologists unearthed the bones while digging at a site called Liang Bua, one of numerous limestone caves on Flores. The remains of the partial skeleton were found at a depth of 5.9m. At first, the researchers thought it was the body of a child. But further investigation revealed otherwise. Wear on the teeth and growth lines on the skull confirm it was an adult, features of the pelvis identify it as female and a leg bone confirms that it walked upright like we do. "When we got the dates back from the skeleton and we found out how young it was, one anthropologist working with us said it must be wrong because it had so many archaic [primitive] traits," said co-discoverer Mike Morwood, associate professor of archaeology at the University of New England, Australia. King of the swingers? The 18,000-year-old specimen, known as Liang Bua 1 or LB1, has been assigned to a new species called Homo floresiensis. It was about one metre tall with long arms and a skull the size of a large grapefruit. The researchers have since found remains belonging to six other individuals from the same species. LB1 shared its island with a golden retriever-sized rat, giant tortoises and huge lizards - including Komodo dragons - and a pony-sized dwarf elephant called Stegodon which the "hobbits" probably hunted. A male Homo floresiensis may have looked something like this (Image: National Geographic) Chris Stringer, head of human origins at London's Natural History Museum said the long arms were an intriguing feature and might even suggest H. floresiensis spent much of its time in the trees. "We don't know this. But if there were Komodo dragons about you might want to be up in the trees with your babies where it's safe. It's something for future research, but the fact they had long arms is at least suggestive," Professor Stringer told BBC News Online. Studies of its hands and feet, which have not yet been described, may shed light on this question, he added. H. floresiensis probably evolved from another species called Homo erectus, whose remains have been discovered on the Indonesian island of Java. Homo erectus may have arrived on Flores about one million years ago, evolving its tiny physique in the isolation provided by the island. What is surprising about this is that this species must have made it to Flores by boat. Yet building craft for travel on open water is traditionally thought to have been beyond the intellectual abilities of Homo erectus. Legendary creatures Even more intriguing is the fact that Flores' inhabitants have incredibly detailed legends about the existence of little people on the island they call Ebu Gogo. The islanders describe Ebu Gogo as being about one metre tall, hairy and prone to "murmuring" to each other in some form of language. They were also able to repeat what islanders said to them in a parrot-like fashion. "There have always been myths about small people - Ireland has its Leprechauns and Australia has the Yowies. I suppose there's some feeling that this is an oral history going back to the survival of these small people into recent times," said co-discoverer Peter Brown, an associate professor of archaeology at New England. When we got the dates back from the skeleton and we found out how young it was, one anthropologist working with us said it must be wrong Mike Morwood, University of New England The last evidence of this human at Liang Bua dates to just before 12,000 years ago, when a volcanic eruption snuffed out much of Flores' unique wildlife. Yet there are hints H. floresiensis could have lived on much later than this. The myths say Ebu Gogo were alive when Dutch explorers arrived a few hundred years ago and the very last legend featuring the mythical creatures dates to 100 years ago. But Henry Gee, senior editor at Nature magazine, goes further. He speculates that species like H.floresiensis might still exist, somewhere in the unexplored tropical forest of Indonesia. Textbook rewrite Professor Stringer said the find "rewrites our knowledge of human evolution." He added: "To have [this species] present 12,000 years ago is frankly astonishing." Homo floresiensis might have evolved its small size in response to the scarcity of resources on the island. "When creatures get marooned on islands they evolve in new and unpredictable courses. Some species grow very big and some species grow very small," Dr Gee explained. LB1 was an adult female that stood just one metre in height Enlarge Image The sophistication of stone tools found with the "hobbit" has surprised some scientists given the human's small brain size of 380cc (around the same size as a chimpanzee). "The whole idea that you need a particular brain size to do anything intelligent is completely blown away by this find," Dr Gee commented. Because the remains are relatively recent and not fossilised, scientists are even hopeful they might yield DNA, which could provide an entirely new perspective on the evolution of the human lineage.

Dwarf skeleton could rewrite human evolution Associated Press, THE JERUSALEM POST  Oct. 28, 2004 In an astonishing discovery that could rewrite the history of human evolution, scientists say they have found the skeleton of a new human species, a dwarf, marooned for eons in a tropical Lost World while modern man rapidly colonized the rest of the planet. The finding on a remote Indonesian island has stunned anthropologists like no other in recent memory. It is a fundamentally new creature that bears more of a resemblance to fictional, barefooted hobbits than modern humans. Yet biologically speaking, it may have been closely related to us and perhaps even shared its caves with our ancestors.  The 3-foot-tall (90-centimeter-tall) adult female skeleton found in a cave is believed 18,000 years old. It smashes the long-cherished scientific belief that our species, Homo sapiens, systematically crowded out other upright-walking human cousins beginning 160,000 years ago and that we've had Earth to ourselves for tens of thousands of years. Instead, it suggests recent evolution was more complex than previously thought. And it demonstrates that Africa, the acknowledged cradle of humanity, does not hold all the answers to persistent questions of how - and where - we came to be. "This finding really does rewrite our knowledge of human evolution," said Chris Stringer, who directs human origins studies at the Natural History Museum in London. "And to have them present less than 20,000 years ago is frankly astonishing." Scientists called the dwarf skeleton "the most extreme" figure to be included in the extended human family. Certainly, she is the shortest. She is the best example of a trove of fragmented bones that account for as many as seven of these primitive individuals that lived on the equatorial island of Flores, located east of Java and northwest of Australia. The mostly intact female skeleton was found in September 2003. Scientists have named the extinct species Homo floresiensis, or Flores Man, and details appear in Thursday's issue of the journal Nature. The specimens' ages range from 95,000 to 12,000 years old, meaning they lived until the threshold of recorded human history and perhaps crossed paths with the ancestors of today's islanders. Flores Man was hardly formidable. His grapefruit-sized brain was two-thirds smaller than ours, and closer to the brains of today's chimpanzees and transitional prehuman species in Africa than vanished 2 million years ago. Yet Flores Man made stone tools, lit fires and organized group hunts for meat. Bones of fish, birds and rodents found near the skeleton were charred, suggesting they were cooked. All this suggests Flores Man lived communally and communicated effectively, perhaps even verbally. "It is arguably the most significant discovery concerning our own genus in my lifetime," said anthropologist Bernard Wood of George Washington University, who reviewed the research independently. Discoveries simply "don't get any better than that," proclaimed Robert Foley and Marta Mirazon Lahr of Cambridge University in a written analysis. To others, the species' baffling combination of slight dimensions and coarse features bears almost no meaningful comparison either to modern humans or to our larger, archaic cousins. They suggest that Flores Man doesn't belong in the genus Homo at all, even if it was a recent contemporary. But they are unsure where to classify it. "I don't think anybody can pigeonhole this into the very simple-minded theories of what is human," anthropologist Jeffrey Schwartz of the University of Pittsburgh. "There is no biological reason to call it Homo. We have to rethink what it is." For now, most researchers have been limited to examining digital photographs of the specimens. The female partial skeleton and other fragments are stored in a laboratory in Jakarta, Indonesia. Researchers from Australia and Indonesia found the partial skeleton 13 months ago in a shallow limestone cave known as Liang Bua. The cave, which extends into a hillside for about 130 feet (40 meters), has been the subject of scientific analysis since 1964. Fenced off and patrolled by guards, it is surrounded by coffee farms. Older stone tools and other artifacts previously found on the island suggest that Flores Man is part of a substantial archaic human lineage. "So the 18,000-year-old skeleton cannot be some kind of 'freak' that we just happened to stumble across," said one of the discoverers, radiocarbon dating expert Richard G. Roberts of the University of Wollongong in Australia. But the environment in which Flores Man lived was indeed peculiar, and scientists say it probably contributed to the specimen's unusually small dimensions. Millenia ago, Flores was a kind of a looking-glass world, a real-life Middle-earth inhabited by a menagerie of fantastical creatures like giant tortoises, elephants as small as ponies and rats as big as hunting dogs. It even had a dragon, although they were giant lizards like today's carnivorous Komodo dragons rather than the treasure-hoarding Smaug described by novelist J.R.R. Tolkien in his "Lord of the Rings" trilogy. Artifacts suggest that a big-boned human cousin, Homo erectus, migrated from Java to Flores and other islands, perhaps by bamboo raft, nearly 1 million years ago. Researchers suspect that Flores Man probably is an H. erectus descendant that was squeezed by the pressures of natural selection. Nature is full of mammals - deer, squirrels and pigs, for example - living in marginal, isolated environments that gradually dwarf when food isn't plentiful and predators aren't threatening. This is the first time that the evolution of dwarfism has been recorded in a human relative, said the study's lead author, Peter Brown of the University of New England in Australia. Just how this primitive, remnant species managed to hang on is uncertain. Inbreeding certainly would've been a danger. Geologic evidence suggests a massive volcanic eruption sealed its fate some 12,000 years ago, along with other unusual island species like the dwarf elephant species, stegodon.  Now, scientists are more puzzled by the specimen's jumble of features that appear to be borrowed from different human ancestors. This much is clear: Its worn teeth and fused skull show it was an adult. The shape of the pelvis is female. The skull is wide like H. erectus. But the sides are rounder and the crown traces an arc from ear to ear. The skull of H. erectus has straight sides and a pointed crown, they said. The lower jaw contains large, blunt teeth and roots like Australopithecus, a prehuman ancestor in Africa more than 3 million years ago. The front teeth are smaller and more like modern human teeth. The eye sockets are big and round, but unlike other members of the Homo genus, it has hardly any chin or browline. The rest of the skeleton looks as if it walked upright, but the pelvis and the shinbone have primitive, even apelike features. Bones from the species' feet and hands have not yet been found. Delicate artifacts found in the cave were described as "toy-sized" versions of stone tools made by H. erectus. They suggest that Flores Man retained intelligence and dexterity to flake small weapons with sharp edges, even if its body shrunk over time. "I've spent a sleepless night trying to figure out what to do with this thing," said Schwartz. "It's a mind-blower. It makes me think of nothing else in this world." Even more speculative is whether Flores Man met with modern humans, and what might've happened. Folklore experts have reported persistent legends of little people living on Flores and nearby islands. Islanders called the creature "Ebu Gogo" and say it was about 3 feet tall. http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/Printer&cid=1098937089885&p=1078113566627

Nature 27 October 2004 Little lady of Flores forces rethink of human evolution Rex Dalton Dwarf hominid lived in Indonesia just 18,000 years ago. A new human-like species - a dwarfed relative who lived just 18,000 years ago in the company of pygmy elephants and giant lizards - has been discovered in Indonesia. Skeletal remains show that the hominins, nicknamed 'hobbits' by some of their discoverers, were only one metre tall, had a brain one-third the size of that of modern humans, and lived on an isolated island long after Homo sapiens had migrated through the South Pacific region. "My jaw dropped to my knees," says Peter Brown, one of the lead authors and a palaeoanthropologist at the University of New England in Armidale, Australia. The find has excited researchers with its implications - if unexpected branches of humanity are still being found today, and lived so recently, then who knows what else might be out there? The species' diminutive stature indicates that humans are subject to the same evolutionary forces that made other mammals shrink to dwarf size when in genetic isolation and under ecological pressure, such as on an island with limited resources. The find has been classed as a new species - Homo floresiensis. © P. Brown The new species, reported this week in Nature, was found by Australian and Indonesian scientists in a rock shelter called Liang Bua on the island of Flores. The team unearthed a near-complete skeleton, thought to be a female, including the skull, jaw and most teeth, along with bones and teeth from at least seven other individuals. In the same site they also found bones from Komodo dragons and an extinct pygmy elephant called Stegodon. The hominin bones were not fossilized, but in a condition the team described as being like "mashed potatoes", a result of their age and the damp conditions. "The skeleton had the consistency of wet blotting paper, so a less experienced excavator might have trashed the find," says Richard Roberts of the University of Wollongong, Australia. "Only the Indonesians were present at the actual moment of discovery - the Australian contingent had departed back to Oz," says Roberts. He credits Thomas Sutikna of the Indonesian Centre for Archaeology in Jakarta for the excellent handling of the samples. The success has inspired national pride at the centre, the researchers say. "This is very important for Indonesian society," says co-author R. P. Soejono. The discovery is prompting increased scrutiny of sites on other Southeast Asian islands, both to look for more of the same species and to place it in context with Homo sapiens and Homo erectus, our closest relative. Homo erectus was found to have lived on the nearby island of Java as long as 1.6 million years ago; the team suggests that the Flores hominins may be their descendants. Dating more bones could help determine whether the species was a short-lived branch of human evolution or survived for longer. Preliminary dating places it at about 70,000 years ago, but it may extend back 800,000 years. "We were hoping we might find a little hominin from that early," says author Michael Morwood, an archaeologist at the University of New England. In the meantime, researchers are hoping to find DNA in the bones, which would help to clarify the relationships between species. DNA has previously been extracted from European Neanderthals living in the same time period. But they have so far failed to find DNA in the teeth of the Stegodon found in the same cave, says Brown. Additional reporting by Michael Hopkin. FROM:  http://www.nature.com/news/2004/041025/full/4311029a.html

27 October 2004 The Flores find Michael Hopkin For the archaeologists who unearthed and studied the Flores skeleton, the discovery is a potentially career-defining event. So how did they greet the find, and has it changed their ideas about human evolution? News@nature.com asked Peter Brown, who led the analysis, and Mike Morwood, who directed the dig, for their reflections. What was your initial reaction to the finding? Peter Brown led the analysis of the remains found at Liang Bua. © P. Brown Peter Brown: In early September 2003 Mike Morwood brought the cast of a tooth to my laboratory. It had been recovered from the excavations at Liang Bua. I realized that while it was broadly human it could not have been from a modern human, so it was exciting. More exciting was when Mike announced that the continuing excavations had uncovered a fairly complete skeleton. We quickly arranged to go to Jakarta. Mike Morwood: The feeling was one of tremendous excitment. We had previously recovered a few very unusual hominid bones and teeth from the Pleistocene levels of Liang Bua, but now we had a major part of a skeleton, including the skull. How quickly did you realize its importance? MM: We knew straight away that the finding was important, but because of the size of the skull we initially thought that the individual was a young child. This view changed when [team member] Rokus Awe Due examined the teeth, which were very worn. Later detailed forensic analysis by Peter Brown indicated that she was an adult female aged about 30. PB: Within a second of seeing the skull and mandible I realized it was important. Mike and Thomas Sutikna (the archaeologist primarily responsible for the day-to-day running of the excavation) report that when I measured the skull's approximate brain size I was clearly in shock. I knew this was the skeleton of a biped, but it had the brain size of a chimpanzee and was alive perhaps as recently as 14,000 years ago. It seemed impossible. Still does! What had you been hoping to find when you began the dig? MM: We were hoping to find evidence for the initial arrival of modern humans on the island, and possibly the preceding hominid species - sites further east in the Soa Basin of central Flores had previously shown that hominids were on the island by 840,000 years ago. So was Homo floresiensis completely out of the blue? The team excavating at Liang Bua. © M. Morwood PB: Yes. The only other hominins of this body and brain size date to the Pliocene epoch [between roughly 7 million and 2 million years ago] in Africa. However, they have very different facial skeletons and teeth to H. floresiensis (smaller teeth and a less projecting face). There are also no other examples of hominins dwarfing in the way that some other mammals often do on islands. We're still not certain that H. floresiensis dwarfed on Flores, as no larger-bodied ancestor has been found. Who made the actual discovery? PB: The discovery was made by the archaeological team directed by Mike and R. P. Soejono [of the Indonesian Centre for Archaeology in Jakarta]. At the time the excavation was being led by Thomas Sutikna, who also did a lot of the initial cleaning and conservation of the skeleton. My role was primarily in cleaning, reconstructing and conserving the skull and some other skeletal elements, and then recording and describing the skeleton. MM: The team was assisted by 35 local manggarai workers. Other researchers dated the finds, and analysed the associated faunal remains and stone artefacts. In fact, the input of specialists from many institutions and disciplines has been crucial to the success of our research. What's next for human palaeontology? Given its habit of throwing up surprises, is that a silly question? PB: Until the discovery at Liang Bua the broad pattern of human palaeontology was starting to look predictable - not such a bad thing for those of us who teach the subject. After this discovery, and perhaps an increased focus on island Southeast Asia, I predict a few major surprises ahead. Researchers will start to look a lot more closely at the isolated teeth and jaw fragments recovered from cave deposits on the Asian mainland. Some of these, previously thought to be the remains of a small ape, may turn out to be something else. MM: My own feeling is that future archaeological discoveries in Southeast Asia will show that human dispersal and cultural change were much more complex than previously believed, and that Asia may have played a much more prominent role in these issues than adherents of the simplistic 'Out of Africa' explanation for everything would have us believe. Does this change your own feelings about the uniqueness and modernity of Homo sapiens? PB: Yes and no. Although it was a member of our genus, H. floresiensis is unlikely to have contributed to the gene pool of H. sapiens. So for me, its importance is not in the evolutionary story of modern humans, but in how the broad group from which modern humans evolved may have adapted and evolved to different ecosystems. Prior to this finding it would not have been thought that a hominin with the brain size, and possibly limited cognitive ability, of H. floresiensis could make the type of tools associated with the skeleton, or even get to Flores at all. I suppose that this is what challenges existing notions of what it is to be human the most. FROM:  http://www.nature.com/news/2004/041025/full/041025-4.html

27 October 2004 A stranger from Flores Chris Stringer When a new fossil is found it is often claimed that it will rewrite the anthropological textbooks. But in the case of an astonishing new discovery from Indonesia, this claim is fully justified. The skull of Homo floresiensis is tiny compared to modern day Homo sapiens. © P. Brown The conventional view of early human evolution is that the species Homo erectus was our first relative to spread out of Africa, some 2 million years ago. The spread that our cousin achieved is indicated by a 1.8-million-year-old, primitive form of H. erectus found at Dmanisi in Georgia, and by finds at slightly younger sites in China and the Indonesian island of Java. It was not thought that H. erectus travelled any farther towards Australia than this, because although early humans could have walked to Java from Southeast Asia at times of low sea level, the islands east of Java, always separated from it by deep water, seemed beyond their reach. However, six years ago a team of archaeologists, led by Australian Mike Morwood, published a paper claiming that a site on the island of Flores, 500 kilometres east of Java, contained stone tools dating from about 800,000 years ago1. Many researchers (myself included) doubted these claims, because if they were true they implied that H. erectus had moved beyond Java and might have used boats to do so. Such a development was thought to be unique to Homo sapiens. When I then heard rumours about the discovery of an early human skeleton in a cave on Flores, I was ready to be surprised. However, nothing could have prepared me for how big (or small) that surprise would be. Asian fusion The skeleton found at Liang Bua, a cave on Flores, is of an adult who was only about one metre tall with a brain size of only 380 cubic centimetres. That is less than one-third of the average brain size for a modern human and much smaller even than those of the primitive H. erectus skulls from Dmanisi. The Flores skull shows a unique mixture of primitive and advanced characteristics. The brain is the same size as a chimpanzee's, the brain-case is low with a prominent brow ridge at the front, and the lower jaw completely lacks a chin. However, as in modern humans, the face is small and delicate. It is tucked under the brain rather than thrust out in front and the teeth are similar in size to our own. The skeleton shows a similarly strange mixture of features. The hip-bone resembles those of the pre-human African species known as australopithecines (meaning 'southern apes'). But the legs are slight, and enough detail has been preserved to show that this creature definitely walked on two legs, as we do. Class act This skull almost certainly belonged to a woman, who lived 18,000 years ago. © P. Brown So what was this strange creature, and what was it doing on Flores? The authors of the two Nature papers about the discovery and its context have had to make difficult choices in deciding how to classify the creature, although it is clear that this person was definitely not a modern human. The small brain size and the hip-bone shape might favour classification as an australopithecine, whereas the size and shape of the skull might suggest a primitive form of H. erectus. Given the unique combination of features, the authors have decided to give the specimen a new name: Homo floresiensis. This means, literally, 'man of Flores', although the authors recognize that the Liang Bua skeleton is probably that of a woman. The researchers argue that this species made the tools found in the Liang Bua cave, and may have preyed on one of the few other mammals that had also managed to reach Flores: a tiny form of the extinct, elephant-like Stegodon. Of a certain age It seems that Flores man (or woman) still has one more surprise up its sleeve: its age. Astonishingly, two methods of dating agree in placing the skeleton at only about 18,000 years old. Its ancestors, probably a form of H. erectus, could have reached the island in the hunt for stegodons a million years ago, either by building some kind of boat or by walking across a short-lived land-bridge. Their resulting isolation and inbreeding may have led them to evolve a small body size, in a process known from other mammals as 'island dwarfing'. Because of climate change or the impact of modern humans, who began to spread from Africa around 100,000 years ago, the strange story of H. floresiensis eventually ended in extinction. But modern humans must surely have encountered this tiny relative of ours, and the discovery shows how much we still have to learn about the story of human evolution. Chris Stringer is a palaeontologist at the Natural History Museum in London. FROM: http://www.nature.com/news/2004/041025/full/041025-3.html

DINOTOPIA - CODES, RULES AND REGS A GREAT PAGE FOR KIDS

OTHER WEB PAGES REFERRING TO DINOSAURS ON THIS SITE THE LECERTA FILE ... see the Iridium concentration in the ground as an evidence for an asteroid impact that killed the dinosaurs. That is not true, but how should you know that? http://www.greatdreams.com/lecerta.htm Getting Ready for Impact with 1998 OX4? - Now also 2001PM9 ... A huge asteroid that hit the planet 65 million years ago is believed to have killed off the dinosaurs. But it has only been in the last 10 to 20 years that scientists have started to seriously ... http://www.greatdreams.com/1998ox4.htm POTENTIALLY HAZARDOUS NEAR EARTH OBJECTS COMING TO YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD SOON ... the Earth about 65 million years ago, with global consequences including the extinction of the dinosaurs. The British National Space Centre has responsibility for co-ordination with the work of other ... http://www.greatdreams.com/near.htm INCOMING ASTEROIDS AND OTHER PLANETARY OBJECTS ... per second 300 hundred years in advance, you can cause it to miss. On the other hand, if like the dinosaurs, you only see the threat in the last 10 seconds as it's burning through the atmosphere toward ... http://www.greatdreams.com/1950DA.htm THE REPTILIANS AND KING LEO ... of the original dinosaur race who fled underground when the event happened that caused the dinosaurs to become extinct. As time passed, they got smaller in stature. They are still vegetarians - they eat ... http://www.greatdreams.com/reptlan/repleo.htm COMET ENCKE AND THE TAURID STREAM ... struck the Earth and killed most of the plant and animal life on the planet, including all of the dinosaurs. There is little doubt that a similar event today would kill most or all of the human species ... http://www.greatdreams.com/encke.htm The Hollow Earth - Religion and legends ... from this folklore. I have always been struck by the conceptual similarity between dragons and dinosaurs. Could it be that certain types of dinosaurs actually retreated into an underground habitat where ... http://www.greatdreams.com/hpch14.htm POLE SHIFT ... is it that the entire Earth shifted? It is fashionable these days to blame the extinction of the dinosaurs on comet strikes. The extinction of the dinosaurs was not a one-time event. Indeed, multitudes ... http://www.greatdreams.com/hpch19.htm DREAMS - SNAKES ... one side to the other far across the water. She held a little rubber toy of one of the cast of the dinosaurs and I also found one of Earl Sinclair floating in the water. I picked it up before it sank ... http://www.greatdreams.com/snakes2.htm SCALAR PHYSICS - ALTERNATIVE ENERGY - FREE ENERGY - PLASMA ENERGY AND HEALING ... - An original, serious and well-argued theory explaining dinosaur extinction, especially why dinosaurs disappeared when reptiles survived! What all other theories are unable to explain. The Discon Theory ... http://www.greatdreams.com/scalar.htm COINCIDENCES ON THE TOPIC OF WATER - 6-30-2001 ... about an end to the Permian Era - but there was another evolution after that. This created the dinosaurs - and they were supreme for 180 million years. It is also interesting to speculate, what they would ... http://www.greatdreams.com/coincidence/water_coincidences.htm COINCIDENCE AND 11:11 - PART III ... , and therefore all our words for it came from "amber." Also interesting, in "Jurrasic Park," the dinosaurs were cloned from cells found inside the insect trapped in amber. I don't know if that means anything ... http://www.greatdreams.com/11coin3.htm CASSINI SPACECRAFT SAFELY PAST EARTH ON THE WAY TO SATURN ... time when human beings don't have to survive on this planet," he said. "We can go extinct like the dinosaurs." On the other side of the world, the General Secretary of the Bangladesh Astronomical Society ... http://www.greatdreams.com/cassini.htm DIRE MESSAGES OF JESUS AND MOTHER MARY - JANUARY, 2002 ... causing the comets to come Earth's way. The best-known such event was the one that wiped out the dinosaurs 65m years ago, but that was not the worst; the planet has suffered several such large mass extinctions ... http://www.greatdreams.com/sacred/dire_jesus6.htm LATEST UFO AND ALIEN NEWS ... the US govt will dream up for holograms, we have to pray and hope its as unconvincing as those dinosaurs in Jurassic Park. Nicky NOTE: I know of one 'light being' who does this himself in Europe to give ... http://www.greatdreams.com/alnnews.htm THE TURTLE ISLAND - THE DREAM - THE MYTHOLOGY - THE REALITY ... . Each one, has a background involving actual dreams and/or coincidences. 1) The destruction of the dinosaurs by a great meteorite that struck at the Yucatan 65 million years ago, leaving a perfect ring ... http://www.greatdreams.com/lessons/turtle.htm BIGFOOT, SASQUATCH, YETI ... engage both children and adults of all ages. This tape is very cool for kids or anyone who likes dinosaurs, and is full of wit and wonderful... http://sunsite.unc.edu/subgenius/bigfist/ears/X0047_YetiDook ... http://www.greatdreams.com/yeti.htm POLE SHIFT - CATACLYSMS ... out just such a scenario in 1985 to explain mass extinctions on Earth, such as the demise of the dinosaurs. Matese also speculated back then about such an effect, but he emphasized that the newly detected ... http://www.greatdreams.com/lostland/pole2.htm ON THE BEACH - IT'S JUST A MOVIE - RIGHT? ... movie monsters unleashed, mutated or destroyed by nuclear energy throughout the decade comprised: dinosaurs Godzilla (1954), Angurus (in Gigantis (1955)), Rodan (1956) and Behemoth, the Sea Monster (1959 ... http://www.greatdreams.com/atomic.htm THE MARS/MOON/ANCIENT SITES CONNECTIONS ... CRATER WATER ON THE MOON AND MARS? ORIGINS OF MANKIND The ICA Stone - Did Mankind Live With The Dinosaurs? ABZU - STUDY GUIDE TO THE ANCIENT MID-EAST ABZU - STUDY GUIDE TO MESOPOTAMIA ANCIENT CHINESE ... http://www.greatdreams.com/mars.htm THE MOON IS TOO TOO BRIGHT - BACTERIA ON THE MOON ... of the Copernican crater era. Incessant meteoric rain has battered the Moon for eons. The dinosaurs saw the Moon (mostly) as we see it. But if you consider the political developments both before and after ... http://www.greatdreams.com/moon/bacteria.htm NUMBERS 132 AND 248 - THE SECOND COMING AND FINAL JUDGMENT ... period of time which has developed its own characteristics, such as Atomic Age or Age of the Dinosaurs, without any limitations to the length of it . Matthew 24:3 - "And as he sat upon the mount of Olives ... http://www.greatdreams.com/sacred/132.htm JOES DREAMS AND DREAM VOICES ... from the sun is also symbolic of quick change in evolution when meteor fell and extinguished the dinosaurs. 6-11-82 - DREAM - I hugged a girl who was fighting. I started crying and she did too. . http://www.greatdreams.com/joedrms/jo7787.htm DEES DREAMS AND VISIONS - MAY 2002 ... , and went around behind him and said, "He actually is a warrior and he just got done slaying 12 dinosaurs." and I kissed him on the back of the neck. I then went over and turned on the light and lit up ... http://www.greatdreams.com/may2002.htm

DREAMS OF THE GREAT EARTHCHANGES - MAIN INDEX